Historians.in.ua: Among the German politicians you are one of the most engaged in Ukrainian issues, so we would like to start from the question: Why Ukraine? What were the reasons for your interest and concern in this country and society?
Viola von Cramon: Well, during my years of study in the early nineties together with some friends we have founded APOLLO e.V. – an NGO that organizes internships for Russian, Belorussian and Ukrainian agricultural students. I travelled a lot during this time throughout these countries. Having finished my studies I started 1996 to work as an assistant of the German Advisory Group of the Ukrainian Government in Kyiv.
Therefore, I know Ukraine much better than Russia. As a member of the German Bundestag I just wanted to use my Eastern European experience. I really like Ukraine – not only because of its size and economical importance but also we in the European Union share a long common border so we are simply obliged to be interested in this country.
Historians.in.ua: You are observing and studying Ukraine and its development for years. Which tendencies do you see? Do you agree with a widespread notion that ourdays Ukraine has to make its decisive or even ‘final’ choice between ‘Europe ’ and the ‘Russian world’?
Viola von Cramon: Since Victor Yanukovych became president in February 2010 a serious deterioration concerning democratic values can be observed. Beginning with the local elections in fall 2011 followed by the juridical processes against opposition politicians of oppositional parties, the trouble journalists can get into and ending with the high level of corruption especially during the preparation of football championship last year. On the one hand side Yanukovych emphasizes in several speeches that Ukraine is heading for an European integration, but on the other hand these speeches are not followed so far by any actions. Although I do not think that Ukraine will be “lost” to the Russian world. It is quite natural that Russia and Ukraine throughout the history have a strong relationship, there are family relationships of course, and parts of Ukraine still do prefer to speak Russian. But that does not mean in my context that those Ukrainians are better or worse citizens. I always argued to find a proper way of handling the language question e.g. such as countries like Canada or Switzerland which have more than one official language.
Historians.in.ua: Would you agree that for many German politicians it is still uneasy to distinguish Ukraine from Russia? Or, in other words, what is the dynamics (if any) of Russian influence on the EU and particularly German perception of Ukraine?
Viola von Cramon: Russia sees itself as the legitimate successor of the Former Soviet Union and more important percepts itself still as global player. But if you look closer it is easier to identify that the potential Ukraine is much bigger, it need just the right government to establish rules for good governance. Where Russia is typical state with a Dutch disease and depend heavily on oil and gas revenues Ukraine must be much more flexible and create a state on rule of law to develop. I would be terrible happy if Ukraine will more keen on working on mutual relation ship in the field science, school exchange, university and educational reform, exchange of media experts etc. This will be essential for Ukraine if they want to have a chance on the international level to compete. I am convinced that the young generation is ready to go that path. If you choose the Eurasian path life will be different.
Historians.in.ua: The idea that Germany or broadly ‘West’ does not properly understand Ukraine is quite popular in Ukrainian public discourse. At the same time, Ukraine (especially at state level) do nothing to improve its image. Which possible steps or initiatives would you suggest as potencially profitable to make Ukraine and its specifics closer to the German public opinion?
Viola von Cramon: Surely, some of this is caused by the “West” themselves: If we will allow many more ordinary people from Ukraine to enter the European Union, those kind of misunderstanding could be removed. We need definitely many more people-to-people-contact and this is necessary for both sides. We urgently have to reform our visa regime and invite people to the EU so they understand what it means “democracy” and rule of law. Otherwise the Ukrainian post-Soviet rules can easily dominate the domestic public discourse in a way they like to do. The result is unfortunately the status quo.
Historians.in.ua: It seems to me that many people in Ukraine have unrealistic expectations about the “European integration”. Do you think current EU will be able to continue enlargement? Are there realistic perspectives for signing EU-Ukraine Agreement this or next year?
Viola von Cramon: I think the problem is that the knowledge of what the EU is or what the advantages of an Association Agreement with the EU are is on a very low level. But this is a failure of the EU. The EU should be much more present in Ukraine – information centres, information events – especially in the eastern parts of the country are missing. If Ukrainians knew why the Association Agreement was an advantage for them they could put pressure on the government. But at the moment I do not see a real chance of signing the Association Agreement in Vilnius in November. If president Yanukovich will not change his policy the agreement will be “frozen”. And nobody can say for how long.
Historians.in.ua: And could Ukrainians still hope for visa-free travel with the EU countries?
Viola von Cramon: This is not a problem with the politicians dealing with foreign affairs; politicians dealing with domestic affairs are putting on the brakes. As I said before: We need a coherent – EU wide – regulation for all our eastern neighbours. But I am quite optimistic in this respect.
Historians.in.ua: Ukrainian Studies in Germany does not look very impressive at the moment. For example, there is no place to learn Ukrainian in Berlin. How this situation could be changed? And why Ukraine, its language and history could be interesting for the German public?
Viola von Cramon: That`s true. But the interest in learning Russian is declining tremendously, too, and not only here. We can see a shrinking interest in all Eastern European languages which I think is a tragedy.
Even in Berlin it is not easy to find a school were Russian is taught. Of course on University level it is better. But then it is Russian, or Polish or Czech that you can learn. May be it would be a good idea to open an “Ukrainian house” or anything similar like that; a place in Berlin, where you can learn Ukrainian language, where films can be shown, authors give lectures – exhibitions can be opened. We have the Russian House of science and culture, the British Council, but smaller countries are represented in Berlin – e.g. Hungary with its Collegium Hungaricum; to have such a “house” would give the German public the possibility of getting to know Ukraine more intensely. The country should advertise for itself.
Since 2009 Viola von Cramon is a Member of the German Bundestag for the Alliance 90 / The Greens parliamentary group. She is a regular member of the Sports as well as the Committee on the Affairs of the European Union and a substitute member in the Foreign Affairs Committee. In the context of the latter Ms von Cramon primarily focuses on the regions of the EU Eastern Partnership, Central Asia and China. Before being elected, she studied Agricultural Sciences in Bonn and Kent (UK), and worked in different international projects, most of them in Eastern Europe.